幫小孩長期投資要買大盤還是正2? - 股票QA
By Belly
at 2023-03-31T14:47
at 2023-03-31T14:47
Table of Contents
※ 引述《gerychen (邪惡肥宅)》之銘言:
: 餓死抬頭
: 如果要幫小孩做一個20年的長期投資
: 中間會以定期定額方式投入資金
: 在這樣的前提下
: 這兩檔標的各位會推薦哪一檔呢?
: 006208富邦台50
: 00675L富邦台灣加權正2
版上正2文 好多,多半就是 問 就是 正2
要不然就2498,
我底下會給個存股的期望報酬公式
問題: 正2 能不能存?
可以,如果扛的起80%以上的MDD的話就可以
現在幾檔台指正2,其實都一樣,所以找個成本低的比較好
一、關於指數
台灣加權報酬率指數 是從 2003/1/2 開始編制的
台指期貨的標的指數是 台指加權價格指數,兩者的差異是報酬指數有含權息
台指期貨大部分時間都是逆價差,尤其在除息旺季,逆價差不小
因為台指期貨是跟著"價格指數"結算,所以逆價差是正常的。
也就是因為這樣,所以如果有能力搞無限換倉,其實就是複製"報酬"指數的
累積報酬率。 長期而言會贏過0050。
二、台指期貨vs 台報酬指數
以下是簡單的 CAPM (2006/12/29~ 2023/3/23)
TXRTN = C(1) + C(2)*(TWRTN-0.02/252) --(1)
https://imgur.com/lLtXMU0
台指期貨每年的超額報酬為 (if TWRTN=0)
=0.000165*252+1.07*(0-0.02)=2.018%
如果價格指數有每年 3.5%的息值,則持有無限換倉的台指期貨
就相當多2%,有5.5%。
三、正2的長期報酬
報酬率指數是2003/1/2 開始,所以把無限換倉與 正2的累積報酬比較如下
因為正2ETF 有管理費,以元大00631L為例約1%,
此外根據我的計算,該ETF每年另外有約1%的交易成本。
所以累積表現另外有成本後的估計
起始價格為 10
https://imgur.com/QGQ05w9
以無成本的為例累積報酬為 535.99/10-1=52.599 倍
當年投100萬,現在有5259.9萬。
但成本後則大降至36.1倍,原因是 20年需打折 (1-0.02)^20=0.667
四、極端風險
正2的標準差 大概就是台指期貨兩倍
最大MDD 則出現在2008年,正2有 -83.2%
例如 你現在砸 1000萬進去,按08年的市況,資產縮水不到200萬
but,如果扛得住的話,現在又是一尾活龍
另外日跌幅超過-2%甚至-4% 是家常便飯。
五、模擬
未來股價走勢不會複製過去的走勢,會是一條隨機漫步走勢
本次模擬一萬次 五年的價格路徑 來模擬 正2的走勢
並且以"每天定期定額"方式計算累積報酬率
以蒙地卡羅模擬法、隨機布朗運動,以GARCH 做變異數預測
https://imgur.com/0OaYzd0 --(2)
由於正2的走勢不完全正比於 指數走勢,因為受到波動度影響
波動愈高正2表現愈差,所以期望報酬並不好估計,本分析採用模擬法
並扣除2%/年 的成本。
六、結果
https://i.imgur.com/L0p0Lab.png
y = 0.1661x^3 + 1.6122x^2 + 2.1235x - 0.0456 --(3)
1.y:正2的五年定期定額期望值
2.x:報酬率指數五年定期定額報酬率
上式就是 正2的五年期望報酬率公式
我們知道定期定額某檔股票,累積報酬通常是標的報酬率的一半
打個例子,如果x=50%,相當指數漲一倍
則正2定期定額的期望報酬為
y=0.1661*0.5^3+1.6122*0.5^2+2.1235*0.5-0.0456=144.0%
如果以期貨開2倍槓桿,比較與正2的累積報酬
(5年定期定額比較)
標的 2倍槓桿 正2
-20.0% -40.0% -40.7%
-10.0% -20.0% -24.2%
0.0% 0.0% -4.6%
10.0% 20.0% 18.3%
20.0% 40.0% 44.5%
30.0% 60.0% 74.1%
40.0% 80.0% 107.2%
50.0% 100.0% 144.0%
60.0% 120.0% 184.5%
所以若標的上漲幅度愈高,正2有類似像call option的gamma效果
驗算: 以2023/3/23 往前5年 也就是 5*252=1260天 是2018/1/18
00631L
正2 TWDVD
2018/1/18 38.35 18969.26
2023/3/23 117 33039.48
-----------------------------
報酬率 205.1% 74.2%
日定期定額 103.1% 38.0% (長期來說定期定額累積報酬就是
報酬率 標的報酬的一半)
公式驗算
y=0.1661*0.38^3+1.6122*0.38^2+2.1235*0.38-0.0456=100.32%
相當接近
七、結語
1.正2能存,但為了避免一開始買在波段高點,建議還是停看聽一下
2.以定期定額方式介入是不錯的方式
3.當金額累積到一定金額,譬如500萬以上,那就是500萬以上的資產波動
並且有機會資產縮水80%,心臟不夠強的要多想想。
4.如果年輕人的話是好的以小博大的方法,資產累積速度可以比較快
5.但絕對不是臨要退休的人、高資產人的標的。
6.有人存股以1000萬、2000萬為目標,當然也有人以億單位為目標
所以對每個資產承度相對於要求報酬一定不一樣。
風險承受也不一樣,要存正2前多想想。
附件
指數與期貨報酬率資料,報酬率為對數報酬
資料:https://reurl.cc/qka5aE
再補充一點
台指正2能夠有超額報酬是因為逆價差大造成的
所以在長期正價差的時候,正2反而會表現愈來愈不好
此外以元大00631L為例 管理費高,
且交易成本估計有 1%/年,相當於160點/年,一個月13點/口
這部分被自營商賺走,10年來說影響整體表現要打9折
--
: 餓死抬頭
: 如果要幫小孩做一個20年的長期投資
: 中間會以定期定額方式投入資金
: 在這樣的前提下
: 這兩檔標的各位會推薦哪一檔呢?
: 006208富邦台50
: 00675L富邦台灣加權正2
版上正2文 好多,多半就是 問 就是 正2
要不然就2498,
我底下會給個存股的期望報酬公式
問題: 正2 能不能存?
可以,如果扛的起80%以上的MDD的話就可以
現在幾檔台指正2,其實都一樣,所以找個成本低的比較好
一、關於指數
台灣加權報酬率指數 是從 2003/1/2 開始編制的
台指期貨的標的指數是 台指加權價格指數,兩者的差異是報酬指數有含權息
台指期貨大部分時間都是逆價差,尤其在除息旺季,逆價差不小
因為台指期貨是跟著"價格指數"結算,所以逆價差是正常的。
也就是因為這樣,所以如果有能力搞無限換倉,其實就是複製"報酬"指數的
累積報酬率。 長期而言會贏過0050。
二、台指期貨vs 台報酬指數
以下是簡單的 CAPM (2006/12/29~ 2023/3/23)
TXRTN = C(1) + C(2)*(TWRTN-0.02/252) --(1)
https://imgur.com/lLtXMU0
台指期貨每年的超額報酬為 (if TWRTN=0)
=0.000165*252+1.07*(0-0.02)=2.018%
如果價格指數有每年 3.5%的息值,則持有無限換倉的台指期貨
就相當多2%,有5.5%。
三、正2的長期報酬
報酬率指數是2003/1/2 開始,所以把無限換倉與 正2的累積報酬比較如下
因為正2ETF 有管理費,以元大00631L為例約1%,
此外根據我的計算,該ETF每年另外有約1%的交易成本。
所以累積表現另外有成本後的估計
起始價格為 10
https://imgur.com/QGQ05w9
以無成本的為例累積報酬為 535.99/10-1=52.599 倍
當年投100萬,現在有5259.9萬。
但成本後則大降至36.1倍,原因是 20年需打折 (1-0.02)^20=0.667
四、極端風險
正2的標準差 大概就是台指期貨兩倍
最大MDD 則出現在2008年,正2有 -83.2%
例如 你現在砸 1000萬進去,按08年的市況,資產縮水不到200萬
but,如果扛得住的話,現在又是一尾活龍
另外日跌幅超過-2%甚至-4% 是家常便飯。
五、模擬
未來股價走勢不會複製過去的走勢,會是一條隨機漫步走勢
本次模擬一萬次 五年的價格路徑 來模擬 正2的走勢
並且以"每天定期定額"方式計算累積報酬率
以蒙地卡羅模擬法、隨機布朗運動,以GARCH 做變異數預測
https://imgur.com/0OaYzd0 --(2)
由於正2的走勢不完全正比於 指數走勢,因為受到波動度影響
波動愈高正2表現愈差,所以期望報酬並不好估計,本分析採用模擬法
並扣除2%/年 的成本。
六、結果
https://i.imgur.com/L0p0Lab.png

1.y:正2的五年定期定額期望值
2.x:報酬率指數五年定期定額報酬率
上式就是 正2的五年期望報酬率公式
我們知道定期定額某檔股票,累積報酬通常是標的報酬率的一半
打個例子,如果x=50%,相當指數漲一倍
則正2定期定額的期望報酬為
y=0.1661*0.5^3+1.6122*0.5^2+2.1235*0.5-0.0456=144.0%
如果以期貨開2倍槓桿,比較與正2的累積報酬
(5年定期定額比較)
標的 2倍槓桿 正2
-20.0% -40.0% -40.7%
-10.0% -20.0% -24.2%
0.0% 0.0% -4.6%
10.0% 20.0% 18.3%
20.0% 40.0% 44.5%
30.0% 60.0% 74.1%
40.0% 80.0% 107.2%
50.0% 100.0% 144.0%
60.0% 120.0% 184.5%
所以若標的上漲幅度愈高,正2有類似像call option的gamma效果
驗算: 以2023/3/23 往前5年 也就是 5*252=1260天 是2018/1/18
00631L
正2 TWDVD
2018/1/18 38.35 18969.26
2023/3/23 117 33039.48
-----------------------------
報酬率 205.1% 74.2%
日定期定額 103.1% 38.0% (長期來說定期定額累積報酬就是
報酬率 標的報酬的一半)
公式驗算
y=0.1661*0.38^3+1.6122*0.38^2+2.1235*0.38-0.0456=100.32%
相當接近
七、結語
1.正2能存,但為了避免一開始買在波段高點,建議還是停看聽一下
2.以定期定額方式介入是不錯的方式
3.當金額累積到一定金額,譬如500萬以上,那就是500萬以上的資產波動
並且有機會資產縮水80%,心臟不夠強的要多想想。
4.如果年輕人的話是好的以小博大的方法,資產累積速度可以比較快
5.但絕對不是臨要退休的人、高資產人的標的。
6.有人存股以1000萬、2000萬為目標,當然也有人以億單位為目標
所以對每個資產承度相對於要求報酬一定不一樣。
風險承受也不一樣,要存正2前多想想。
附件
指數與期貨報酬率資料,報酬率為對數報酬
資料:https://reurl.cc/qka5aE
再補充一點
台指正2能夠有超額報酬是因為逆價差大造成的
所以在長期正價差的時候,正2反而會表現愈來愈不好
此外以元大00631L為例 管理費高,
且交易成本估計有 1%/年,相當於160點/年,一個月13點/口
這部分被自營商賺走,10年來說影響整體表現要打9折
--
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