瑞德西韋解盲研究 - 股票

By Kelly
at 2020-05-01T08:06
at 2020-05-01T08:06
Table of Contents
※ 引述《werqq (sandy0980)》之銘言:
: https://reurl.cc/vDaaWN
: 重點如下:
: In this study of adult patients admitted to hospital for severe COVID-19, re
md
: es
: ivir was not associated with statistically significant clinical benefits. Ho
we
: ve
: r, the numerical reduction in time to clinical improvement in those treated
ea
: rl
: ier requires confirmation in larger studies.
我是來討噓的(笑)
因為我覺得沒幾個人會認真看
中國最早開始做臨床,所以數據最早出來
用的是一開始設定的指標
美國在4月中修改了主要指標,然後4月底就說有顯著差異了
先說結論,美國修改指標"合情合理、無可厚非",不如說是中國原先的指標太嚴苛,難以
看出療效
因此才會有"相似的數據",卻一邊說無效、一邊說有效
就像你考了65分,放在大學及格了,放在碩班就變不及格了,但是你的分數(療效)一直都
是65分,並沒有變來變去
沒人說一定要幾分以上才叫有療效
沒有一個藥是100分的
而是你怎麼評估這個藥
出題太難或太簡單都沒有鑑別力
適度調整是OK的
但中國臨床根本非戰之罪,一堆不看內容的人整天說他造假
中國數據跟美國數據的相似度很高
中國數據造假難不成美國也是...?
我現在講的是"這一篇"臨床數據
不要跟我扯其他研究、其他數據是不是造假
中國愛造假大家都知道
確診數、死亡數、口罩、檢驗試劑......一堆假貨
但目前這篇數據看起來跟美國"初步"公布的很相似
完整報告還沒出來,細節沒辦法比
以下第14天死亡率哪個是中國的?
11%、8%、10%、8%、7%、7%、18%
副作用(不良反應)都很低
中國有看病毒量變化、美國沒有,沒得比
各個國家的出院標準不同(中國、美國就不同,但美國的臨床是多國家合作),不好比
恢復天數,這個就是主要指標放寬的部分
例如,Gilead的臨床,由低流量供氧恢復到住院不需供氧不需照護(出院前一步了),便是
進步了2點
但中國沒有住院不需供氧不需照護的這個階段,同樣低流量供氧的病患,要出院才是進步
2點,因此由結論上來看,症狀改善較不顯著
結果不會變,但結論會因為你設定的目標改變
很多國家出院的條件之一是雙採陰(間隔至少24小時),因此從出院前一步到出院,至少就
會拖1天以上,若不是雙採陰就一直往後延長,即使他幾乎就是好了,依然不能出院
所以我認為美國放寬指標也無不妥,反而更能看出是否"恢復",而非卡在雙採陰才能出院
這件事上
兩國相似的數據,在中國無效、在美國有效的最大原因在這,純粹一開始設計太嚴苛
同一個藥,一邊說無效、一邊說有效
但兩個說法都是正確的喔
很詭異嗎?
並不會,雙方都符合科學的方法
--
: https://reurl.cc/vDaaWN
: 重點如下:
: In this study of adult patients admitted to hospital for severe COVID-19, re
md
: es
: ivir was not associated with statistically significant clinical benefits. Ho
we
: ve
: r, the numerical reduction in time to clinical improvement in those treated
ea
: rl
: ier requires confirmation in larger studies.
我是來討噓的(笑)
因為我覺得沒幾個人會認真看
中國最早開始做臨床,所以數據最早出來
用的是一開始設定的指標
美國在4月中修改了主要指標,然後4月底就說有顯著差異了
先說結論,美國修改指標"合情合理、無可厚非",不如說是中國原先的指標太嚴苛,難以
看出療效
因此才會有"相似的數據",卻一邊說無效、一邊說有效
就像你考了65分,放在大學及格了,放在碩班就變不及格了,但是你的分數(療效)一直都
是65分,並沒有變來變去
沒人說一定要幾分以上才叫有療效
沒有一個藥是100分的
而是你怎麼評估這個藥
出題太難或太簡單都沒有鑑別力
適度調整是OK的
但中國臨床根本非戰之罪,一堆不看內容的人整天說他造假
中國數據跟美國數據的相似度很高
中國數據造假難不成美國也是...?
我現在講的是"這一篇"臨床數據
不要跟我扯其他研究、其他數據是不是造假
中國愛造假大家都知道
確診數、死亡數、口罩、檢驗試劑......一堆假貨
但目前這篇數據看起來跟美國"初步"公布的很相似
完整報告還沒出來,細節沒辦法比
以下第14天死亡率哪個是中國的?
11%、8%、10%、8%、7%、7%、18%
副作用(不良反應)都很低
中國有看病毒量變化、美國沒有,沒得比
各個國家的出院標準不同(中國、美國就不同,但美國的臨床是多國家合作),不好比
恢復天數,這個就是主要指標放寬的部分
例如,Gilead的臨床,由低流量供氧恢復到住院不需供氧不需照護(出院前一步了),便是
進步了2點
但中國沒有住院不需供氧不需照護的這個階段,同樣低流量供氧的病患,要出院才是進步
2點,因此由結論上來看,症狀改善較不顯著
結果不會變,但結論會因為你設定的目標改變
很多國家出院的條件之一是雙採陰(間隔至少24小時),因此從出院前一步到出院,至少就
會拖1天以上,若不是雙採陰就一直往後延長,即使他幾乎就是好了,依然不能出院
所以我認為美國放寬指標也無不妥,反而更能看出是否"恢復",而非卡在雙採陰才能出院
這件事上
兩國相似的數據,在中國無效、在美國有效的最大原因在這,純粹一開始設計太嚴苛
同一個藥,一邊說無效、一邊說有效
但兩個說法都是正確的喔
很詭異嗎?
並不會,雙方都符合科學的方法
--
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