外包新生意…台積電不見得會接 - 股票

By Necoo
at 2020-07-27T09:49
at 2020-07-27T09:49
Table of Contents
※ [本文轉錄自 Tech_Job 看板 #1V6zmIaa ]
作者: waitrop (嘴砲無雙) 看板: Tech_Job
標題: Re: [新聞] 外包新生意…台積電不見得會接
時間: Sat Jul 25 15:15:28 2020
長話短說,這是在Intel炒話題推卸責任減輕壓力,
事實上Intel不可能轉單給台積電,
以下是我個人經驗以及專業分析,
我的職業生涯曾經參與也經歷過兩次晶圓廠轉單過程,
一次是XScale轉單從Intel轉到台積電,
第二次是Qualcomm轉單從台積電到三星,
兩次都有非常重大的商業目的,
之後再來聊聊高通第一次轉單到三星的老故事,
在要說故事之前,我先科普一下基本常識,
一般Designer寫RTL都是用Verilog or SystemVerilog,
寫出來的代碼跟C很像,
我當年的確就把RTL當作C在寫,
然後晶圓廠會提供fab lib,
再透過design tool/compiler, backend 等等轉成gate file,
這個才是最終下單到晶圓廠的檔案,
轉成白話文,
就像是你在寫程式代碼,
最終編譯器會把你的代碼轉成機器看得懂也能執行的binary file,
同樣的,晶片設計需要把RTL轉成最終能夠讓晶圓廠製造的gate file,
回到主題,
Intel從來就沒有台積電的fab lib = tsmc lib,
Intel真正第一次從Intel晶圓廠轉單到台積電應該是當年XScale,
當年XScale花了兩三年的時間,
才成功轉單到台積電,
其中這個fab lib佔了很大的因素,
而且Intel裡頭有很多完全不相容的獨門lib,
聽說是專為Intel製成跟晶圓廠設計的lib,
可以提高晶片效率也就是,
外界說的Intel 7奈米製成等於台積電5奈米製程的原因
你就想成現在蘋果筆電要從X86轉成ARM,
需要花多少時間轉換,
即使最上曾使用端APP都還是用一模一樣的程式碼,
現實就是不只原始代碼可能要改,
lib跟compiler需要大改
Intel不可能花這樣的人力跟時間去做這種事情,
單純嘴砲而已
※ 引述《hvariables (Speculative Male)》之銘言:
: https://udn.com/news/story/7240/4729243
: 外包新生意…台積電不見得會接
: 2020-07-25 05:02 經濟日報 / 編譯季晶晶、洪啟原、劉忠勇/綜合外電
: 英特爾(Intel)執行長史旺23日含糊表示,願「務實」考慮將晶片委外生產,似暗示台
: 積電日後可能取得英特爾的代工訂單。但分析師認為可能性不高,一來台積電可能不願意
: ,二來台積電也沒有多餘產能。
: 史旺在23日法說會中花近1小時,討論這個全球晶片製造龍頭從未有過的念頭:自己不生
: 產晶片,言下之意是考慮外包晶片製造業務。
: 史旺告訴分析師:「某種程度來說,我們需要利用別人的製程技術,我們謂之為應變方案
: ,我們會準備這麼做,這麼一來給我更多選擇和彈性。所以一旦製程上疏失時,我們能嘗
: 試別的,不用全部都自己生產。」
: 彭博專欄作家金泰指出,英特爾的問題不在於設計出好的晶片,而在於生產不出好的晶片
: ,因此勢必得跟進超微和輝達,「外包給全世界最頂尖的晶圓代工業者:台積電,這是讓
: 英特爾重回正軌的最簡單做法」。
: 晶圓代工已成為4,000億美元晶片產業的常態,只有英特爾這50年來仍維持晶片設計與製
: 造不分家的傳統。如今英特爾改變策略,將代表晶片業的一大轉向,英特爾與其他晶片製
: 造商最大的差異也將消失。
: Cowen分析師蘭姆西認為,要台積電為英特爾代工不容易,原因是台積電的其他客戶和英
: 特爾有競爭關係,他們可能反對台積電優先處理英特爾的設計。此外,台積電可能也不願
: 意勻出太多新產能給英特爾,因為英特爾可能隨後改由自己生產。
: 史福伯登分析師拉斯根說:「他們不能找台積電,因為台積電沒有產能了。」
--
作者: waitrop (嘴砲無雙) 看板: Tech_Job
標題: Re: [新聞] 外包新生意…台積電不見得會接
時間: Sat Jul 25 15:15:28 2020
長話短說,這是在Intel炒話題推卸責任減輕壓力,
事實上Intel不可能轉單給台積電,
以下是我個人經驗以及專業分析,
我的職業生涯曾經參與也經歷過兩次晶圓廠轉單過程,
一次是XScale轉單從Intel轉到台積電,
第二次是Qualcomm轉單從台積電到三星,
兩次都有非常重大的商業目的,
之後再來聊聊高通第一次轉單到三星的老故事,
在要說故事之前,我先科普一下基本常識,
一般Designer寫RTL都是用Verilog or SystemVerilog,
寫出來的代碼跟C很像,
我當年的確就把RTL當作C在寫,
然後晶圓廠會提供fab lib,
再透過design tool/compiler, backend 等等轉成gate file,
這個才是最終下單到晶圓廠的檔案,
轉成白話文,
就像是你在寫程式代碼,
最終編譯器會把你的代碼轉成機器看得懂也能執行的binary file,
同樣的,晶片設計需要把RTL轉成最終能夠讓晶圓廠製造的gate file,
回到主題,
Intel從來就沒有台積電的fab lib = tsmc lib,
Intel真正第一次從Intel晶圓廠轉單到台積電應該是當年XScale,
當年XScale花了兩三年的時間,
才成功轉單到台積電,
其中這個fab lib佔了很大的因素,
而且Intel裡頭有很多完全不相容的獨門lib,
聽說是專為Intel製成跟晶圓廠設計的lib,
可以提高晶片效率也就是,
外界說的Intel 7奈米製成等於台積電5奈米製程的原因
你就想成現在蘋果筆電要從X86轉成ARM,
需要花多少時間轉換,
即使最上曾使用端APP都還是用一模一樣的程式碼,
現實就是不只原始代碼可能要改,
lib跟compiler需要大改
Intel不可能花這樣的人力跟時間去做這種事情,
單純嘴砲而已
※ 引述《hvariables (Speculative Male)》之銘言:
: https://udn.com/news/story/7240/4729243
: 外包新生意…台積電不見得會接
: 2020-07-25 05:02 經濟日報 / 編譯季晶晶、洪啟原、劉忠勇/綜合外電
: 英特爾(Intel)執行長史旺23日含糊表示,願「務實」考慮將晶片委外生產,似暗示台
: 積電日後可能取得英特爾的代工訂單。但分析師認為可能性不高,一來台積電可能不願意
: ,二來台積電也沒有多餘產能。
: 史旺在23日法說會中花近1小時,討論這個全球晶片製造龍頭從未有過的念頭:自己不生
: 產晶片,言下之意是考慮外包晶片製造業務。
: 史旺告訴分析師:「某種程度來說,我們需要利用別人的製程技術,我們謂之為應變方案
: ,我們會準備這麼做,這麼一來給我更多選擇和彈性。所以一旦製程上疏失時,我們能嘗
: 試別的,不用全部都自己生產。」
: 彭博專欄作家金泰指出,英特爾的問題不在於設計出好的晶片,而在於生產不出好的晶片
: ,因此勢必得跟進超微和輝達,「外包給全世界最頂尖的晶圓代工業者:台積電,這是讓
: 英特爾重回正軌的最簡單做法」。
: 晶圓代工已成為4,000億美元晶片產業的常態,只有英特爾這50年來仍維持晶片設計與製
: 造不分家的傳統。如今英特爾改變策略,將代表晶片業的一大轉向,英特爾與其他晶片製
: 造商最大的差異也將消失。
: Cowen分析師蘭姆西認為,要台積電為英特爾代工不容易,原因是台積電的其他客戶和英
: 特爾有競爭關係,他們可能反對台積電優先處理英特爾的設計。此外,台積電可能也不願
: 意勻出太多新產能給英特爾,因為英特爾可能隨後改由自己生產。
: 史福伯登分析師拉斯根說:「他們不能找台積電,因為台積電沒有產能了。」
--
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