2千萬流動資產沒房沒車能靠投資過一生嗎 - 股票QA
By Olivia
at 2023-03-24T08:11
at 2023-03-24T08:11
Table of Contents
※ 引述《missucrystal (妳還好嗎)》之銘言:
: 就像標題說的那樣
: 常常幻想自己有那些錢
: 然後就能靠4%法則投資過一輩子
: 但仔細想想
: 連幾百萬在股市的波動都能拉扯心情
: 放大到2000萬而且又沒工作的時候
: 心態真的撐得住嗎?
: 還是我只是庸人自擾
: 其實這金額的報酬率根本就不夠
: 想說有沒有差不多這數字就全職的前輩
: 可以跟小弟分享一下
: 讓小弟知道自己未來如果有幸達到這數字
: 是可以循前人的路把離職信摔在老闆桌上
: 還是繼續忍受無奈的職場T_T
剛巧小魯打算明年提前退休,策略之一和原PO一樣,就是存定存股領股息做為退休後生活費來源之一,應該稍微有點資格就這個問題提供原PO一些看法經驗供交流。
為證明小魯不是吹牛皮,提供下圖證明目前的股市部位,另外還有約100多萬出借賺借券費中。未來一兩年會將部位拉高到跟原PO差不多的水位。股利部分前年領了40萬,去年含股期領了120萬。
https://imgur.com/a/wRwL28K
想要靠股利過退休生活,小魯的經驗看法是:
第一、心態調整非常非常重要。部位愈大,崩跌的時候愈恐怖。對一個領了一輩子死薪水的社畜,去年看到帳上一天消失50萬時,那種感覺終身難忘。更難忘的是,接下來幾天繼續崩個幾十萬,崩到開始懷疑人生。但相信我,多經歷個幾次,你就習慣了。
第二,退休一定要有計畫,千萬不能因為一時衝動。以小魯為例,三年前就開始記錄每月生活開支,通過三年記錄的數據,已經大致確定退休後數年內每年需要的生活費數目。至於通膨,考慮到股利的不確定性,小魯是用下列不等式來評估股利是否足夠:
MAX(通膨N年後的開支,N年後與現在五萬元月薪相當的年薪) < 折減因子 x 退休前一年的股利
折減因子介於0跟1之間,看個人對股利掌握的精準度,小魯是設定在0.7
小魯沒有買醫療險,有些人會覺得老了以後醫療會花很多錢,但事實上小魯參考周遭親人經驗,除非是要支出昂貴的自費項目跟居家照護器材,不然在目前健保制度下其實花不到什麼錢。況且每年一萬多的醫療險要繳數十年,如果把這筆錢拿去投資,乘上複利效應可能與晚年要支出的醫藥費差不多。
另外當年紀漸長,有些過往佔比很大的支出項目反而會減少,這也要考慮進去。
第三,領股息為主與買低賣高賺價差的策略南轅北轍。小魯一開始是價差仔,為了計畫提前退休過去幾年做了試驗,一半定存股領股利,一半玩價差,得出了幾個結論:
1)定存股是愈跌愈買。誠如版上FJ大說的最好跌到十年線以下。去年十月時趁著某幾支定存股跌到殖利率快10%時進了不少。
2)遇到像去年這種系統性大跌時,可以定期領股利的定存股,有助於安撫帳上資產大幅縮水的恐慌感,避免在行情不好時被迫賤賣股票籌生活費。像小魯一度帳面價值少了五百多萬,過往靠股票賺來的幾乎全吐了回去,賺價差的部位好幾次受不了心理壓力被迫停損,反而是定存股跌得再慘也沒什麼感覺。
3)定存股適合慢慢來,初期績效看似沒有賺價差部位來得多,但多年累積下來小魯覺得不會比較差,適合不想花太多時間盯盤的退休族。
4)與賺價差偏向集中持股不一樣,定存股要盡量分散風險。小魯目前持有的定存股及ETF標的已經超過100檔,投資標的遍及各個產業,透過ETF投資海外地區的部分約佔四成。本來還想直接投資美國公司債,但目前評估認為風險稍大,暫且沒有執行。
第四,房產一定要有。就很簡單的一句話,房產是抗通膨資產,其他不必多說。前面有人舉日本為例認為房產不一定保值,這是通縮。既然通縮,自然就不必擔心未來生活費通膨的問題啦。
第五、一定要有預備金計畫。小魯的規劃是要能夠支應六年以上的生活費。這部分小魯是自理財型房貸中保留部分額度不去動用,再加上每年收入扣掉生活費的剩餘。這意思就是不打算股利立刻再投入。預備金可以做很多事,前面所說趁系統性風險大跌時趁機進場撿定存股是其中之一。
最後,不管再怎樣分散風險,系統性風險是沒有辦法消除的。如果房貸利率高過定存股殖利率怎麼辦,如果中共打過來怎麼辦,這些小魯也認真評估過,這裡就不細述了。
--
: 就像標題說的那樣
: 常常幻想自己有那些錢
: 然後就能靠4%法則投資過一輩子
: 但仔細想想
: 連幾百萬在股市的波動都能拉扯心情
: 放大到2000萬而且又沒工作的時候
: 心態真的撐得住嗎?
: 還是我只是庸人自擾
: 其實這金額的報酬率根本就不夠
: 想說有沒有差不多這數字就全職的前輩
: 可以跟小弟分享一下
: 讓小弟知道自己未來如果有幸達到這數字
: 是可以循前人的路把離職信摔在老闆桌上
: 還是繼續忍受無奈的職場T_T
剛巧小魯打算明年提前退休,策略之一和原PO一樣,就是存定存股領股息做為退休後生活費來源之一,應該稍微有點資格就這個問題提供原PO一些看法經驗供交流。
為證明小魯不是吹牛皮,提供下圖證明目前的股市部位,另外還有約100多萬出借賺借券費中。未來一兩年會將部位拉高到跟原PO差不多的水位。股利部分前年領了40萬,去年含股期領了120萬。
https://imgur.com/a/wRwL28K
想要靠股利過退休生活,小魯的經驗看法是:
第一、心態調整非常非常重要。部位愈大,崩跌的時候愈恐怖。對一個領了一輩子死薪水的社畜,去年看到帳上一天消失50萬時,那種感覺終身難忘。更難忘的是,接下來幾天繼續崩個幾十萬,崩到開始懷疑人生。但相信我,多經歷個幾次,你就習慣了。
第二,退休一定要有計畫,千萬不能因為一時衝動。以小魯為例,三年前就開始記錄每月生活開支,通過三年記錄的數據,已經大致確定退休後數年內每年需要的生活費數目。至於通膨,考慮到股利的不確定性,小魯是用下列不等式來評估股利是否足夠:
MAX(通膨N年後的開支,N年後與現在五萬元月薪相當的年薪) < 折減因子 x 退休前一年的股利
折減因子介於0跟1之間,看個人對股利掌握的精準度,小魯是設定在0.7
小魯沒有買醫療險,有些人會覺得老了以後醫療會花很多錢,但事實上小魯參考周遭親人經驗,除非是要支出昂貴的自費項目跟居家照護器材,不然在目前健保制度下其實花不到什麼錢。況且每年一萬多的醫療險要繳數十年,如果把這筆錢拿去投資,乘上複利效應可能與晚年要支出的醫藥費差不多。
另外當年紀漸長,有些過往佔比很大的支出項目反而會減少,這也要考慮進去。
第三,領股息為主與買低賣高賺價差的策略南轅北轍。小魯一開始是價差仔,為了計畫提前退休過去幾年做了試驗,一半定存股領股利,一半玩價差,得出了幾個結論:
1)定存股是愈跌愈買。誠如版上FJ大說的最好跌到十年線以下。去年十月時趁著某幾支定存股跌到殖利率快10%時進了不少。
2)遇到像去年這種系統性大跌時,可以定期領股利的定存股,有助於安撫帳上資產大幅縮水的恐慌感,避免在行情不好時被迫賤賣股票籌生活費。像小魯一度帳面價值少了五百多萬,過往靠股票賺來的幾乎全吐了回去,賺價差的部位好幾次受不了心理壓力被迫停損,反而是定存股跌得再慘也沒什麼感覺。
3)定存股適合慢慢來,初期績效看似沒有賺價差部位來得多,但多年累積下來小魯覺得不會比較差,適合不想花太多時間盯盤的退休族。
4)與賺價差偏向集中持股不一樣,定存股要盡量分散風險。小魯目前持有的定存股及ETF標的已經超過100檔,投資標的遍及各個產業,透過ETF投資海外地區的部分約佔四成。本來還想直接投資美國公司債,但目前評估認為風險稍大,暫且沒有執行。
第四,房產一定要有。就很簡單的一句話,房產是抗通膨資產,其他不必多說。前面有人舉日本為例認為房產不一定保值,這是通縮。既然通縮,自然就不必擔心未來生活費通膨的問題啦。
第五、一定要有預備金計畫。小魯的規劃是要能夠支應六年以上的生活費。這部分小魯是自理財型房貸中保留部分額度不去動用,再加上每年收入扣掉生活費的剩餘。這意思就是不打算股利立刻再投入。預備金可以做很多事,前面所說趁系統性風險大跌時趁機進場撿定存股是其中之一。
最後,不管再怎樣分散風險,系統性風險是沒有辦法消除的。如果房貸利率高過定存股殖利率怎麼辦,如果中共打過來怎麼辦,這些小魯也認真評估過,這裡就不細述了。
--
Tags:
股票
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